Did you know? (GOD) -Panna 2:Shayari-e-Parastish

Meena

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«Reply #15 on: April 13, 2005, 03:41:58 PM »

true pooja!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

:D


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HumTum

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«Reply #16 on: April 13, 2005, 03:45:31 PM »

Mere pyare dostooN ab bhagwaan ji ko to chod do bhai .... koi aur mudda nhi mila uthaney ke liye....


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Karan.sri

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«Reply #17 on: April 13, 2005, 05:23:03 PM »

Quote from: "HumTum"

Mere pyare dostooN ab bhagwaan ji ko to chod do bhai .... koi aur mudda nhi mila uthaney ke liye....

Dear HumTum

Bhagwan ko chod denge to kuch aur uthane ke liye jaan he kahan bachegi...
Allah he se to sara jahaan hain...


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amit_is_always_cool

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«Reply #18 on: April 13, 2005, 05:35:24 PM »

ya right sahi kaha karan ji uus oopar walai kai bina tho pata bhi nahi hiltha tho hum insaan kya cheez hai


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Karan.sri

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«Reply #19 on: April 14, 2005, 04:02:49 AM »

UNKO BHULA SAKE, ZAMANE MEIN DUM NAHIN
UN SE HAY ZAMANA, ZAMANE SE VO NAHIN


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salaam2all

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salaam

«Reply #20 on: April 16, 2005, 05:06:36 PM »

hi pooja..hope u r fine and doin well...just wanna say that u said that god is in ourself but if i dont interfare with ur imotions i jus wanna say that everything in this world have got existance and every human being believes that there is a super power who is operating this world but we dont think that what is the purpose of us to be created and what are our duties towards him now a days its easy to say that i believe in god in my way because the problem is we find hard for us to follow his instructions some people say that i believe in this god some say that i believe in that god some say that u can believe i any god but ur prayers goes to one and only i jst wanna say that why we ppls dont read our religious scriptures and other religious scriptures so as to clear our minds and to know what is right and what is wrong if we can take the trouble of doing anything which is good for us in this wrold then why cant we take some trouble to read them so as to know about the hereafter or eternity everyone say that this is right and that is right but very few know about the fact so before talking about any religious statement why cant we think that weather its authantic or not as the creator has given all of us the mind to think ...well i dont want to bore u anymore:P but i do read different religious books and as far as i know that the major religious books says that he is one he has no father no mother he is not born he cannot die no one can see him with the eyes he has no daughter nor son he is all alone almighty so why we cannot follow this simple law of almighty and why we make idols with our own hands and tell them god when no one has seen him then where these idols came from so there is only one conclusion that either god the almighty is wrong which is impossible or we are wrong which we are....what are ur opinions about that pooja,meena,amit,karan,humtum,pandit and waheed please feel free to say ................salaaam


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Meena

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«Reply #21 on: April 16, 2005, 06:56:29 PM »

well salam ji maine bhi to wohi kaha tha ke jo marzi nam de do usko, doesnt matter. bas man pe vishwas hona chahiye.

:D


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Karan.sri

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«Reply #22 on: April 17, 2005, 05:13:34 AM »

Salaam :!: Salaam,

The creator of God is only one, there is no doubt about it...even if you think scientifically...
according to Einstein's mass energy relation...all matter can be converted into energy...so if we convert all matter into energy...only one thing will remain in this universe...that is energy...
Now different types of energy is a relative thing...in truth energy in only one...it appears different under different circumstances
Law of Energy: Energy can neither be created nor destroyed, it can only be converted from one form into another...
So, you see, we are, in fact, all one...all part of one God...no different from our creator...yet appear different...how?...well, it is a mystery
And the only purpose of human birth is to solve this mystery...nothing is important than this...

Now, you asked, why we make idols :?:
To know oneself/thy creator/God, you need to focus your mind...everybody cannot focus his/her mind on the formless God...since we live in a world full of objects, we need some object to focus our mind...
this is the science behind making idols...
Idols are not made of just any person...we make idols of only those person who have lived a very pure life, who never compromised on values and who suffered innumerable pains to hold Dharma...
In short, who did something that ordinary mortals cannot be expected to do...
There are so many different idols, why?
Because, our mind want choices...we do not wear same clothes everyday although we can, we do not eat same food everyday, although we can...
Similarly, there are differnt idols to choose from...imp thing is that once a person has choosen a idol as his ideal, he should stick to it, otherwise he/she won't be able to progres much on the spiritual path...

Always remember one thing, the only way you can solve the mystery of this world is by
Being Still and Silent...

I can't explain you the whole thing in such a short space...

Since you have written that you do read different religious books, i advice you to read Patanjali's Yoga Sutras with commentary of some good yogacharya or you could search for it on the net...won't be able to understand much initially...but once you start getting what has been said, you will start enjoying the book...

It contains the essence of the path of spirituality...


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salaam2all

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«Reply #23 on: April 17, 2005, 01:39:12 PM »

salaam...thanks karan for replying and putting ur efforts regarding this topic and i really appreciate that....

as u said that we live in a world of full objects so we need some objects to focus our mind......but still my question is the same the theory u have given is made by human not by god because god says that he has no form and anything which dont have any form how its possible to make and object of that thing?so making idols and worshipping that is totally a human error which was naver said by god almighty for example...

Those whose intelligence has been stolen by material desires surrender unto demigods and follow the particular rules and regulations of worship according to their own natures."
[Bhagavad Gita 7:20]

The Gita states that people who are materialistic worship demigods i.e. ‘gods’ besides the True God.

UPANISHADS

"Ekam evadvitiyam"
"He is One only without a second."
[Chandogya Upanishad 6:2:1]1

"Na casya kascij janita na cadhipah."
"Of Him there are neither parents nor lord."
[Svetasvatara Upanishad 6:9]2

"Na tasya pratima asti"
"There is no likeness of Him."
[Svetasvatara Upanishad 4:19]3

Yajurveda

The following verses from the Yajurveda echo a similar concept of God:

"na tasya pratima asti
"There is no image of Him."
[Yajurveda 32:3]5

"shudhama poapvidham"
"He is bodyless and pure."
[Yajurveda 40:8]6

"Andhatama pravishanti ye asambhuti mupaste"
"They enter darkness, those who worship the natural elements" (Air, Water, Fire, stone etc.). "They sink deeper in darkness, those who worship sambhuti."
[Yajurveda 40:9]7

Sambhuti means created things, for example table, chair, idol, etc.

The Yajurveda contains the following prayer:
"Lead us to the good path and remove the sin that makes us stray and wander."
[Yajurveda 40:16]8

The following verses from the Upanishad allude to the inability of man to imagine God in a particular form:

"Na samdrse tisthati rupam asya, na caksusa pasyati kas canainam."

"His form is not to be seen; no one sees Him with the eye."
[Svetasvatara Upanishad 4:20]4

so if we make idols by our hands to get focused it is prohibited in all the major religions so why cant we follow the truth.....hope to talk to u soon brother karan and i will be really happy to discuss this matter further with u....take care..salaam


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Karan.sri

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«Reply #24 on: April 17, 2005, 04:24:31 PM »

Nice Salaam :!:

You seem to know quite a bit...

First of all, you have to understand one thing...the only person you can change in this world is you, yourself...you cannot change a single person according to your wish, what to talk of the world...so forget about the world...its not your creation...the creator will take care of his creation...

If you are not comfortable with idol worship, which is called, Bhakti marg in Hindu religion, you can take to Gyan marg, as i can infer from your last msg that you have studied some upansihads...

Upanishads are for a Gyan margi sadhak...

And, don't try to change others...what you will get is unnecessary tension and might entangle yourself in unnecessary dispute...

The primary shastra for a gyan margi is Rishi Patanjali's Yoga Sutras, which i have already mentioned in my previous msg...

You might like to check Swami Sivananda's websites (www.sivananda.com and www.dlshq.org)
A large no. of his books are available for free download...
You will learn a lot from his books...he was a self realised soul who lived in Rishikesh, Himalayas and founded Divine Life Society...

You might also like to read Paramhansa Yogananda's autobiography called Autobiography of a Yogi...you will really enjoy reading it...search for it on Net...it is also available for free...

May you realise the ultimate truth...Salaam!


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salaam2all

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«Reply #25 on: April 18, 2005, 01:06:47 AM »

salaam brother karan..........first of all i havent said that i wanna change the world...secondly when we talk about anything it shold be logical and it should not contradict and the creator who create the universe cannot make mistakes when he says that no one has seen me and no one can see me that means that no one in this world can see him and its not possible to make pictures or objects without imagination or having a look so if u say that idol worship is right then u r wrong not the god almighty because his law is the same for everyone doesnt matter weather u live in any part of the world ...its gonna be the same and humans dont have any authoruty to change the laws but still they have done it. so logically if u analyse then the points which u have said does not meet them logically but if people say that its their opinion even if its unlogical then we dont have any authority to do that as it is misguiding others.....so when u say anything about that it has to be logical the creator wont say in one place that people who do idol worship are in darkness and in other place that idol worship is ok for those who cannot concentrate because its unlogical and contradicting .......salaam


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Karan.sri

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«Reply #26 on: April 18, 2005, 02:32:29 AM »

Salaam, you are getting confused between demi-gods called devta in Hindi and God...By the term God is meant self realised souls...there is no difference between God and the self realised souls...so if anyone worships there idol as well as follow there instructions,it is as good as worshipping God and following his instructions...

When God says that no one has seen him and no one can see him, what he means is his formless nature...

But God is all powerful, he is beyond anybody's imagination, he is beyond logic, he can do all sorts of illogical things...

If God can make this vast universe, then why do you think that he can't take form... :?: God can certainly take form either as an avtaar like Ram, Krishn etc. or by revealing himself in the heart of a sadhak who then becomes a self realised soul like Mansur, Baba Bulleshah, Baba Farid, Rabiya Begum, Socrates, Guru Nanak, Kabir, Guru Gorakhnath, Buddha, Mahavir, Sri Ramkrishn Paramhansa, Aacharya Shankar, Swami Vivekanand, Swami Ramtirth, Swami Ram, Swami Sivanand etc. etc. A self realised soul is no different from God...

Its like energy, we are all different forms of the same energy and when someone realises his/her true nature that person becomes one with God...there is no difference between God and that person...

In Hindi, a self realised soul is called Guru...
Guru, means one who disples the darkness...

My advice to you is...stop worrying about idol worship if you are really serious abt having a meeting with God

Find a guru (i think called Murshid in Urdu) who has realised his self and follow him...all your doubts will go away with time...

Be Still and Quiet and you will know without being told...............:!:
(advice given to Swami Ram by an Himalayan Sage)


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salaam2all

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«Reply #27 on: April 18, 2005, 03:53:10 AM »

salaam brother karan....and thanks for the reply

see if i am an inventer of a mobile phone then i dont have to become a mobile phone to know its functions since i am an inventer i know everything about my invention so why do u think that to know humans or to give instructions to humans god almighty have to take avtar or become a human ?? he is our creator he knows us better then us so he dont have to become human to know what we think and what we should do ....ya on the other hand he sends his messengers to convey the message and they too are human beings but that doesnt mean that we should bow our heads to them they came to convey the message of almighty that he is the only one and there is no one besides him so we have to follow that......and as u said that god can do all sorts of illlogic things.......i agree that he can do anything but that doesnt mean that he will do wrong ...he is almighty and he is always right u cannot say that when he says that no one can see me then he also means that he could be seen to few that doesnt make any sence because he is equal with everyone and if no one can see him means that no one can see him he wont lie to anyone but its us who had made these lies... the good example of that is

if u take hinduism there is no where its written that meat eating is not allowed in hinduism but people of that time used to eat meat
There are many Hindus who are strictly vegetarian. They think it is against their religion to consume non-vegetarian food. But the true fact is that the Hindu scriptures permit a person to have meat. The scriptures mention Hindu sages and saints consuming non-vegetarian food.
It is mentioned in Manu Smruti, the law book of Hindus, in chapter 5 verse 30

"The eater who eats the flesh of those to be eaten does nothing bad, even if he does it day after day, for God himself created some to be eaten and some to be eater."
c. Again next verse of Manu Smruti, that is, chapter 5 verse 31 says
"Eating meat is right for the sacrifice, this is traditionally known as a rule of the gods."

d. Further in Manu Smruti chapter 5 verse 39 and 40 says

"God himself created sacrificial animals for sacrifice, ...., therefore killing in a sacrifice is not killing."

e. Mahabharata Anushashan Parva chapter 88 narrates the discussion between Dharmaraj Yudhishthira and Pitamah Bhishma about what food one should offer to Pitris (ancestors) during the Shraddha (ceremony of dead) to keep them satisfied. Paragraph reads as follows:

"Yudhishthira said, "O thou of great puissance, tell me what that object is which, if dedicated to the Pitiris (dead ancestors), become inexhaustible! What Havi, again, (if offered) lasts for all time? What, indeed, is that which (if presented) becomes eternal?"

"Bhishma said, "Listen to me, O Yudhishthira, what those Havis are which persons conversant with the rituals of the Shraddha (the ceremony of dead) regard as suitable in view of Shraddha and what the fruits are that attach to each. With sesame seeds and rice and barely and Masha and water and roots and fruits, if given at Shraddhas, the pitris, O king, remain gratified for the period of a month. With fishes offered at Shraddhas, the pitris remain gratified for a period of two months. With the mutton they remain gratified for three months and with the hare for four months, with the flesh of the goat for five months, with the bacon (meat of pig) for six months, and with the flesh of birds for seven. With venison obtained from those deer that are called Prishata, they remaingratified for eight months, and with that obtained from the Ruru for nine months, and with the meat of Gavaya for ten months, With the meat of the bufffalo their gratification lasts for eleven months. With beef presented at the Shraddha, their gratification, it is said , lasts for a full year. Payasa mixed with ghee is as much acceptable to the pitris as beef. With the meat of Vadhrinasa (a large bull) the gratification of pitris lasts for twelve years. The flesh of rhinoceros, offered to the pitris on anniversaries of the lunar days on which they died, becomes inexhaustible. The potherb called Kalaska, the petals of kanchana flower, and meat of (red) goat also, thus offered, prove inexhaustible.

So but natural if you want to keep your ancestors satisfied forever, you should serve them the meat of red goat.

7. Hinduism was influenced by other religions

Though Hindu Scriptures permit its followers to have non-vegetarian food, many Hindus adopted the vegetarian system because they were influenced by other religions like Jainism.

so if someone says that non veg is not permitted in hinduism thats his error or human error but hinduism allows to eat meat.......


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Suhas

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«Reply #28 on: April 18, 2005, 04:32:11 AM »

wow..... very useful discussions... but i don't know much about these things to discuss... Thanks a lot for sharing with us............. Usual Smile


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Karan.sri

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«Reply #29 on: April 18, 2005, 04:59:53 AM »

Salaam, may i ask you one thing...do you eat meat :?:

Look, there are two types of world, the gross world and the subtle world...if anybody keeps eating meat or food that satisfies his taste buds, his/her intellect will become more grosser(moti buddhi)...anybody who wants to understand God and this world should have a subtle intellect and to make the intellect(buddhi) subtle(sukshm) one needs to live a very, very disciplined life, eat pure sattvic food(hope u understand the meaning of sattvic food)...if possible give up salt and sugar, do regular satsang...don't ask questions till atleast a year and then after one year, see for himself whether his doubts are still as much or they have reduced...

An elephant cannot be passed through the hole of a needle...similarly God can be understood only be people who have a subtle intellect...

Just reading scriptures and not following discipline won't lead a person anywhere...

I am telling you again and again to read Rishi Patanjali's Yog Sutras...follow the discipline prescribed in Chapter 2 for at least a year, then see the change for yourself...

There is no end to arguments, called shashtratha in ancient times...

You cannot prove anything by arguing...for every argument there is a counter argument...

If you are really serious...want to get a feel of the real thing...do some sadhna...follow discipline as instructed by Patanjali Rishi in Chapter 2 of Yog Sutra...then perhaps you won't feel any need to argue...your doubts will vanish as if they have never existed...

I haven't written anything to hurt your feelings...it is just a sincere advice to a sincere seeker...


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